Olin Moyles Ghost

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Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

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  23

  What would you say are THE core teachings of the JWs...

  by Tuesday in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey everyone,.

  getting some feedback, what would you say are the core teachings or were the core teachings of the jehovah's witnesses.

  the teachings that make them unique, the teachings that if they weren't there the jehovah's witnesses wouldn't exist.. i would say the teaching of 1914 and god choosing jws as the right religion would probably be the core teaching.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Undercover, those "big 3" were the ones that were important to me when I was a believing JW. I remember going out in service and I LOVED to talk about the Trinity. I had dozens of smart-@$$ comebacks for Trinitarians (who was Jesus praying to? was God really dead for 3 days? who resurrected him?, etc.). It was too much fun.

  I think these "big 3" doctrines are a large part of what keeps some Witnesses in the religion even if they see issues with doctrines, failed prophecies, corrupt leadership, etc. They say that nobody else is right. I actually agree with this statement--if you remove the word "else."
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  23

  What would you say are THE core teachings of the JWs...

  by Tuesday in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey everyone,.

  getting some feedback, what would you say are the core teachings or were the core teachings of the jehovah's witnesses.

  the teachings that make them unique, the teachings that if they weren't there the jehovah's witnesses wouldn't exist.. i would say the teaching of 1914 and god choosing jws as the right religion would probably be the core teaching.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Oompa--I agree that there are absolutely some big doctrines that haven't changed. The big 3 are (1) no trinity; (2) no hell; (3) no immortal soul. (note that they are all things that WT/JW people don't believe in...I think it's interesting that the most important doctrines to a JW are things they don't believe in).

  To me, the combination of the GB=God and "the end is near" trumps everything, thus forming the core of JW/WT theology.
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  23

  What would you say are THE core teachings of the JWs...

  by Tuesday in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey everyone,.

  getting some feedback, what would you say are the core teachings or were the core teachings of the jehovah's witnesses.

  the teachings that make them unique, the teachings that if they weren't there the jehovah's witnesses wouldn't exist.. i would say the teaching of 1914 and god choosing jws as the right religion would probably be the core teaching.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  My take on it:

  1. By a long shot, the most important JW doctrine is that the Governing Body/Watchtower speaks for God (as Farkel pointed out).
  2. The end is near (whatever that means).

  These two doctrines form the core of the JW belief structure. Number 1 allows the actual theology to morph as necessary to fit the needs of the Watchtower leadership. Number 2 keeps the Witnesses simultaneously frightened (of being killed at Armageddon) and excited (about living in paradise), so they stay motivated to do what the WT leadership says without questioning it.
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  126

  PROVE that Jehovah's Witnesses have the "Truth".

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  minimus started a thread asking people to prove that jws don't have the truth.... but, instead of proving they don't, i'd like to see someone prove that the witnesses do have the truth.. this is your thread jw apologists....convince me why you have the truth.. to all you apostates and nay-sayers, please allow the apologists to have their say without harrassing them.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Ok, here are a few that I've heard:

  • Well, nobody else is right.
  • The WTS/JWs are the only ones preaching the good news of the kingdom worldwide.
  • No trinity + no hell + paradise earth + preaching work + no pagan holidays + no going to war = the most pure Christian religion
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  30

  PROVE That Jehovah's Witnesses Are Not "The Truth"

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there are a few here that say we are not being fair and that we wrongfully bash the witnesses.. simply prove that the religion is not correct by any standard..

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Even assuming the Bible is God's Infallible Word (which is quite an assumption), JWs fail for at least the following reasons:

  • Luke 21:8: Jesus explicitly commands Christians not to follow those who say the end is at hand. The WTS has been bleating about the end being at hand for 130 years. Thus, Jesus commands us not to follow the WTS.
  • 1 Cor. 4:6 says not to go beyond what is written. The WTS makes up many rules out of whole cloth (for example, no oral sex between marriage mates, no vasectomies, no beards for men, no pantsuits for women). Also, many of its doctrines go far beyond what is written and in some cases directly contradict scripture (1914, 1918, 1919, two classes of Christians, Jesus is not your meditor, etc.).
  • Many scriptures condemn false prophets; Jesus warned about false prophets. The WTS is an infamous false prophet. Of course WTS defenders torture the English language to argue that the WTS isn't really a prophet. But anyone with a bit of sense can tell that the WTS has put itself up as a prophet time and time again...and failed miserably time and time again.
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  22

  JWs who don't believe they have the truth. What percent?

  by I quit! in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  every year i think about this and i believe every year the percent goes up but it is hard to know what the number is because any doubting jw lives in fear of being found out.

  they know how their lives would be permanently changed if they openly stated that they just couldn't believe it anymore.

  i think there could be kingdom halls were 50% of the people attending don't believe they have the truth but think they are the only one that feels that way because every other doubter is doing the same thing they are doing.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  There's a big difference between disagreeing with a JW teaching/practice and not believing it's The Truth.

  I think every Witness has something he/she disagrees with. Common examples include (1) no oral sex between marriage mates; (2) must be a JW to survive Armageddon; (3) shunning DF'd family members; (4) silly prophecy stuff like the 7 trumpet blasts, 2300 days in Daniel representing the time between some WT articles and an annual meeting, etc.

  But despite disagreeing with (or "not understanding") certain doctrines, these JWs still believe it's "The Truth." I'd say at least 90% of the baptized JWs at an average meeting believe it's The Truth.

  And, as has been pointed out before, a large number of JWs don't understand many of the doctrines anyway...and they don't care, either! I know I didn't care much about doctrine, and I was a born-in JW. If I had not started digging into the doctrines, I'd still be a believing JW. And by "believing JW," I mean a JW that believes the WTS/FDS/GB is God's Channel and the JW religion is The Truth. Of course, I never believed in any of the 4 examples above...so you can be the judge about how much of a "believer" I ever was.
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  65

  Unloaded on the husband of my wife's study sister last night, how much damage did I do to myself??

  by insearchoftruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  well had a really good weekend away from home, but i guess i knew that the respite from the wts would end.

  tuesdays are the day my wife has her personal bible study with the sister and she has also had the husband come over on tuesday afternoons so the son can have the pleasure of a bible study (which he loathes, he is a high school junior and has no interest in this stuff).

  i get home from work late, after a fairly long day and the guy is still there.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Sounds like a fun conversation! I have a couple of thoughts. First, the JW "teachers" almost certainly identified your arguments as "apostate" and will likely warn your wife that you are using apostate reasoning. That's JW-speak for someone who asks questions that they can't answer. It wouldn't surprise me if the JW backs off from trying to have Bible discussions with you. The excuse may be that you're not honest-hearted (which is JW-speak for gullible).

  That's how JWs work. They love to have Bible discussions with people. But if you don't fall in line with their point of view after a few discussions, they lose patience with you. Of course, that's my personal experience and your mileage may vary.

  And I love the way you ended your conversation with the question about whether we could still be friends. He answered that he could no longer maintain a friendship, since we would no longer have a common belief. Perhaps a response could be: "do you consider me a friend today?" He would probably say yes. You could reply, "but we don't have a common belief today, so what's the difference?" Or something like that.
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  47

  Are You Still 'Politically Neutral'?

  by leavingwt in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  are any of you still 'politically neutral' for biblical reasons?

  just curious.. .

  lwt.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Nope, never was. I always considered myself a patriotic, Democratic-leaning Witness. I always thought our national anthem was a beautiful song, and as a child I felt guilty for humming it. I always thought our country, with all of its flaws, was the greatest on earth and was glad to be born in the USA.
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  16

  Republican Witnesses and Democrat Witnesses

  by inkling in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it seems to me that witnesses are political in .

  much the same way they are racist: i.e.

  but not out loud.. i recall a conversation during a coffee break.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  In general, there are parts of the JW lifestyle/theology that fit well with the political left--the "new system" is basically a communist utopia. And there are parts that fit well with the political right--the "moral majority" type movements and social conservatism in general (anti-gay, anti-science, pro-censorship, etc.).

  In practice, I've found that Witness political leanings are fairly predictable. The well-to-do small business owner JWs are the ones who watch Fox, listen to Rush Limbaugh, and bash liberals and democrats.

  Almost all African-American JWs in my circle hated Bush and had a very difficult time staying neutral once Obama was nominated.
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  68

  What is the JW theology?

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  by "theology" i mean "the study of god (gk.

  : theos).. jws keep rabbiting on ad nauseum about the trinity teaching being "irrational", "impossible to understand", etc.. i do not want this thread to be about the trinitarian doctrine.. i want to be given an explanation of what a jw believes.

  i have seen so many arrows and spears thrown by jws, i want to know exactly what they are defending.. i want to see an explanation of "god" that is rational and can be understood.. doug.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  JW theology...like the theology of many other organized religions...consists of:

  • "teaching commands of men as doctrines" (Matt. 15:9)
  • "going beyond what is written" (1 Cor. 4:6)
  • "trusting in nobles and the son of earthling man" (Psalms 146:3-4)
  • "saying the due time has approached " (Luke 21:8)

  and lots of other nonsense. Hope that helps.